tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-137677673775151256.post4710176355191205844..comments2024-03-28T10:31:55.774-07:00Comments on The Passing Tramp: Circling Back: Jonathan Stagge's The Scarlet Circle (1936 and 1943)The Passing Tramphttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09830680639601570152noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-137677673775151256.post-28602570823531768602020-09-12T20:23:35.745-07:002020-09-12T20:23:35.745-07:00The prewar and wartime English editions are so rar...The prewar and wartime English editions are so rare, I have no idea. Glad there is a better explanation of why Dr. Westlake dragged Dawn to that place! Interesting to see these different versions.The Passing Tramphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09830680639601570152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-137677673775151256.post-37048206566211219742020-09-08T15:11:07.212-07:002020-09-08T15:11:07.212-07:00Very interesting! This shifts the mystery from the...Very interesting! This shifts the mystery from the Scandinavian translations to the UK edition. I presume it is fair to expect that those "additions" compared to the US edition were made by the author(s) themselves. As you note, this also raises the question whether other books also have notatble differences between US and U.K. Editions!Christophehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01978885973806549838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-137677673775151256.post-10788302082888275322020-09-08T07:37:43.229-07:002020-09-08T07:37:43.229-07:00Finally, I have the solution to our little additio...Finally, I have the solution to our little additional mystery: the additional texts can all be found in the UK version (Light from a Lantern), which I have fortunately been able to acquire, and the Norwegian version is a faithful translation of this version. The more elaborate version of why Westlake likes to vacation at Cape Talisman, is for instance present, as are the extra paragraphs before Barnes scratches his ear in Chapter 7, and the two whole additional pages at the start of Chapter 17. (There are many other differences, large or small).<br /><br />I have also compared with a Swedish translation, which contains the exact same additions, while the French translation does not. The French version is titled Le circle écarlate, and the title of the original is given as The Scarlet Circle. The Swedish and Norwegian versions have titles on the same pattern as Light from a Lantern (Papperslyktan/Lys fra en papirlykt),and both of them give this as the name of the original.<br />So, at least these two translations were based on the UK edition, while the French translation was based on the US edition.<br /><br />Maybe I am biased from having read the longer version first, when I was young, but it feels richer and (even) more satisfying to me; this is indeed the text that made such an impression that I count it as one of my favourite mystery novels - by comparison The Scarlet Circle feels is a tiny bit abridged.<br /><br />It is interesting that the UK version is clearly different, not just in its title, but also content. It makes me wonder whether some of the other versions that were published with different titles in the UK, also could have had some differences in the text.<br /><br />The part we have been quoting, for instance, crops up in yet another slightly different version now, containing some elements of 1936 and some of the 1943 US version:<br />“September is a wild, unaccountable month on that particular part of the New England coast. Wild and unaccountable, too, is the shore line of Cape Talisman. It is one of those spots against which the elements seem to have a perpetual grudge. Inch by inch the waves are encroaching upon the crumbling dunes, and the older section of the town, which was once a flourishing community, is now almost deserted.<br />Even to the south, where there was a scattered bulwark of protective rocks, nothing was really safe. The Talisman Inn, so secure, so prim when I first stayed there fifteen years ago, now had the beach for a front garden. Soon it would have to be moved back or abandoned, just as the old church had been abandoned a couple of years ago when the hurricane had induced the Atlantic Ocean to surge into the churchyard and threaten the last resting-place of Cape Talisman’s stalwart fisher folk.”<br /><br />And here is the additional section a couple of paragraphs further down, in the true voice of Hugh Wheeler:<br /><br />“And so the Talisman Inn, to which we were making our way, was hardly the warm, cheerful hearth to which fishermen are conventionally supposed to repair. And Cape Talisman itself was hardøy the place for a widowed father to take his eleven-year-old child.<br /><br />But to me that little corner of the coast had an incalculable magic. Its grey dunes, its relentlessly beating breakers, its tumbling inn and its desolate church were all to me as they had been fifteen years ago when I had brought my wife there on our honeymoon. Every summer after that Paula and I had returned for a blissful two weeks shamelessly snatched from a young doctor’s struggle to build up a practice. Later, when my wife died and Dawn and I were alone, Cape Talisman became a symbol of happier times. My annual pilgrimage there may have seemed morbid. I don’t think that it was – unless it is morbid at almost forty to spend a brief part of each year in leaning and loving over one’s vanished twenties.”<br /><br />Let me know if you are interested in getting further examples of the changes that have been made!Tore J Narvestadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12997315076896134911noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-137677673775151256.post-62871956927470008942020-08-10T21:11:18.165-07:002020-08-10T21:11:18.165-07:00Fascinating. I'm still trying to track down ea...Fascinating. I'm still trying to track down earlier serialized version of Murder or Mercy? and Danger Next Door.The Passing Tramphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09830680639601570152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-137677673775151256.post-73688035206835113892020-08-10T15:15:02.566-07:002020-08-10T15:15:02.566-07:00Thanks for your sleuthing. The hypothesis that the...Thanks for your sleuthing. The hypothesis that the additions may be related to serialization is quite interesting. Would it not imply that a majority, if not all, of the additions would be towards the end or beginning of chapters?Christophehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01978885973806549838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-137677673775151256.post-72458844634862040702020-08-10T14:31:51.674-07:002020-08-10T14:31:51.674-07:00You are right, it seems someone felt a better moti...You are right, it seems someone felt a better motivation for Westlake was needed! <br />There are certainly situations where it may be tempting for a translator to make changes, but they will (unless we are dealing with an incompetent translator who is “skipping the difficult parts”; clearly not the case here) often relate to what is termed cultural untranslatability. It may be as simple as a joke that does not work in another language, or concepts which are difficult to convey in translation (such as if an original contains long descriptions of e.g. cricket or baseball). I don’t really see this type of change coming into play in our case, yet there are many differences between the versions, far more than I can enumerate here. <br /><br />Here is an example of a very obvious and puzzling difference: Chapter 16 ends, both in English and Norwegian, with Westlake leaving a character at night “to his lonely and very baffling vigil”. Chapter 17 in my English version starts with Westlake being woken up next morning, by Dawn banging on the door and shouting. But the Norwegian Chapter 17 starts with Westlake walking back to the inn at night, recapitulating the case in his mind. There are two entire pages (!) of this before we finally get to the part where Dawn wakes him up.<br />These paragraphs are, if anything, something that would make sense to include in a serialized version (a version of Previously, on The Scarlet Circle, enabling new readers to catch up), but which could be a candidate for removing if the text needed shortening.<br /><br />Where on earth would be the pay-off for a translator to add this much text? I suppose it is conceivable that he was paid per page or other unit and found a way to increase the page count … (or the Norwegian translation was serialized at this end; but I have no information indicating that this was the case) but I still feel the changes we see between the versions, are of a type it would be more likely for Hugh to make. But unless we find evidence of this, we are so far looking rather at an intrepid translator. I will keep investigating though!Tore J Narvestadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12997315076896134911noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-137677673775151256.post-20268658180779404502020-08-05T19:35:30.927-07:002020-08-05T19:35:30.927-07:00I've never in all my years seen a prewar Engli...I've never in all my years seen a prewar English edition of a Jonathan Stagge novel. That one section you quote is interesting, it's like someone felt a need for a better explanation of why Westlake was dragging his daughter with himself to this decrepit inn!The Passing Tramphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09830680639601570152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-137677673775151256.post-32962267227533216532020-08-05T13:43:08.384-07:002020-08-05T13:43:08.384-07:00I suppose it is possible that the translator may h...I suppose it is possible that the translator may have embellished, but if so I think he has done so very well (to me the added material has the feel of something Hugh Wheeler could have written). <br />The translator of this book was Jacob Brinchmann, who wrote some mysteries himself. Maybe he got very much in the groove when translating this one ...<br />(At least now you know why I felt sure the book mentioned Dawn's age, and I understand equally well that you did not find it!)<br />I will be putting the question to the GAD forum to see if anybody has some other translations that I can check against, or a copy of the UK version Light from a Lantern.Tore J Narvestadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12997315076896134911noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-137677673775151256.post-6433822539968094612020-08-05T13:41:36.514-07:002020-08-05T13:41:36.514-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Tore J Narvestadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12997315076896134911noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-137677673775151256.post-4991216320219175912020-08-05T12:14:32.248-07:002020-08-05T12:14:32.248-07:00From your quotes the American pb edition matches t...From your quotes the American pb edition matches the American first edition. The Norwegian seemingly has added a lot. You don't suppose you had a translator who embellished do you? I recall one of Simenon's English translators, I forget his name, was accused of rewriting the text to suit himself.The Passing Tramphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09830680639601570152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-137677673775151256.post-7286064317298270582020-08-04T14:45:08.404-07:002020-08-04T14:45:08.404-07:00I have gone back and checked the initial chapters ...I have gone back and checked the initial chapters of my English copy and the Norwegian translation, and my English copy corresponds to the sections you have marked 1943. For instance the first section you quote, is indeed in the past (Wild and unaccountable, too, was the shore line … It was one of those spots …). Fifteen years have passed since he was there first, not ten, and the hurricane is mentioned. <br /><br />My English version is the 'Complete and Unabridged' Popular Library edition with a big red circle on a green and yellow cover. Since it clearly has the passages you quote as being from the 1943 text, it is not the pulp version, which I suspected for a while when I noticed there were whole paragraphs in my Norwegian version which were not there in English.<br />But this is still clearly the case, and only makes it more confusing. Some of the changes again seem like typical (further?) embellishments. It starts out with maybe an added sentence here, a slight change of wording there. But there are complete paragraphs which are added/different.<br /><br />Here is a quote from very early on in the English version, when Dr Westlake is describing the inn as they come back from the fishing trip:<br />‘The Talisman Inn was hardly the warm, cheerful hearth to which fishermen are supposed to repair. But Dawn and I were happy there. We had long ago developed the habit of being contented with each other’s company.<br />The pall of mist that lay over the dunes seemed to be thicker as we rounded the promontory …’<br /><br />Now to the Norwegian version, which is far longer and which I back-translate into English:<br />‘The Talisman Inn was hardly the warm, cheerful hearth to which fishermen are supposed to repair. And Cape Talisman was hardly the place a widower would be expected to travel with his soon-to-be eleven-year-old child.<br />But this small corner of the coast held an inexplicable attraction for me. The grey sand dunes, the inexorable breaking of the heavy seas, the precariously perched inn, the deserted church – in my eyes everything was just as it had been fifteen years ago, when I spent my honeymoon here. Since then, Paula and I had returned every summer to spend two wonderful weeks of holiday, shamelessly stolen from a busy young doctor’s time. Later, after my wife died and Dawn and I were alone, Cape Talisman would remain for me a symbol of happier times. Maybe you could see something morbid in my annual pilgrimage here, but I did not see it like that – unless it is morbid for a man around forty to spend a short time every year reminiscing about his youthful love.<br />The pall of mist that lay over the dunes seemed to be thicker as we rounded the promontory …’<br /><br />Does your copy have this section? Surely there must be an English corresponding version also which has Dawn’s age and how Westlake had spent his honeymoon there?<br /><br />There are several similar examples as the text goes on. For instance, the start of Chapter 7 in my English version has only three short paragraphs before “Barnes scratched his ear with a bony finger”, taking up only about a quarter of a page. The Norwegian version has almost an entire added page!<br />I wonder whether Hugh could have expanded the text in ‘instalments’? <br />Alternatively, since the Norwegian version is titled Lys fra en papirlykt, which corresponds to the UK title Light from a Lantern, could the UK version be different yet again from the US version?<br />Or maybe most likely – the alleged Complete and Unabridged version is neither.Tore J Narvestadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12997315076896134911noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-137677673775151256.post-28016295416010477492020-08-03T13:44:20.077-07:002020-08-03T13:44:20.077-07:00I liked Dawn a lot in this book. Her determination...I liked Dawn a lot in this book. Her determination and "logic" were charming, and how her father worried about her was touching. Bobby was carton-board in comparison, but that need not be surprising given his very young age.Christophehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01978885973806549838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-137677673775151256.post-87791128665795046572020-08-02T14:47:10.168-07:002020-08-02T14:47:10.168-07:00Oh, on Dawn's age, the pulp version gives it a...Oh, on Dawn's age, the pulp version gives it as nine! Which admittedly kind of fits with her behavior in the book, lol. Does the book say 11, I was trying to find that. Yes, I like in Taxi how Dawn is infatuated with the fish that resembles her scoutmaster. ;)The Passing Tramphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09830680639601570152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-137677673775151256.post-57948396546172550842020-08-02T14:44:55.288-07:002020-08-02T14:44:55.288-07:00I've written more about it in the book (though...I've written more about it in the book (though this piece will seem long enough to some, I'm sure, lol), but generally in the 43 version the writing is improved, episodes rearranged, morbid psychology downplayed and Dawn's role greatly enhanced. In the pulp version there's not too much done with Dawn and Booby, where in the 43 novel it's a highlight. I get the impression Hugh was more interested in child psychology, Rickie in deviant criminal psychology.<br /><br />Does your translation have the climax in the church itself with Dawn and Bobby? That's only in the 43 version. Trying not to say too much because of spoilers. That dovetails so nicely. Of course Hugh had the advantage of the '38 hurricane being such a recent event. <br /><br />Don't you love that inn, with its great wraparound porch? I'd love to think that Rickie and Hugh stayed here, but the inn seems to have gone downhill after Thomas Lyman died in 1922. I think it may have been razed by the end of the decade. It's odd but people aren't clear about this. The whole place was wiped out in the '38 hurricane. Of course Rickie and Hugh may have had another place, or no particular place, in mind. As the written postcard indicates, people were still sating at cottages at Sakonnet during the Depression, so maybe they paid a visit. Who knows! Certainly the isolated location and declining tourist trade is suggestive of Cape Talisman.The Passing Tramphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09830680639601570152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-137677673775151256.post-72106709547590069872020-08-02T13:51:51.560-07:002020-08-02T13:51:51.560-07:00Great piece, this book is also among my favourites...Great piece, this book is also among my favourites. (I think this story would have the potential to make an excellent film, with its very evocative setting). That inn you have found photos of looks just right to me!<br /><br />It is really interesting to see the development from the pulp version to the novel. (Though I am getting ever more confused about the differences between the English version I have, and the Norwegian translation – I will try to go back and check whether the parts you quote, are in either or both of them).<br /><br />The Yellow Taxi was probably as close to puberty Dawn would ever get. She is stated to be twelve and the book it is set right before Christmas, and as we know from Murder or Mercy that her birthday is early in the year, she should in fact be close to thirteen. She may even be crushing in an innocent way on her scoutmaster …(?)<br /><br />She seems clearly younger in The Scarlet Circle, nine seems about right though I think she is stated to be eleven.Tore J Narvestadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12997315076896134911noreply@blogger.com